"I have learned that I need a better gadget for this. Don't use Flymaster for Airspace."
"Flymaster is crap at airspace - I need better instrumentation I can rely on."
"but what a crap screen - nothing, just a tiny arrow. So I fiddled with it in the air and got nothing."
"Francis, what do you mean by basic map reading? How could I have avoided airspace without some instrument showing my relative position? "
Hi DaveM, hopefully the guidance here being offered by very experienced pilots show that you need to ignore the tech. If you're going to use a Nav then use it only as a tool and don't rely on it...it's not the Flymaster's fault....think flying visually. "Flymaster is crap at airspace - I need better instrumentation I can rely on."
"but what a crap screen - nothing, just a tiny arrow. So I fiddled with it in the air and got nothing."
"Francis, what do you mean by basic map reading? How could I have avoided airspace without some instrument showing my relative position? "
There is great advice being offered here from very experienced pilots and some wise words mainly due to the serious nature of this.
Every time you go out with the intent on flying XC, plan your flight and eventualities using that CAA air chart you have, study the ground features if you're not familiar with the area as they are marked on the map. Make a note of the boundaries to airspace down wind and what features might you look out for making it a boundary such as a road/town/railway/tower. etc. If you have an instrument then back that up with a preplanned route to help. Yes for sure some pilots are using instruments with moving maps but only as a guide as they are still flying using ground and visual features.
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:58 PM, David Molden <davidmoldenchen@gmail.com> wrote:
Francis, what do you mean by basic map reading? How could I have avoided airspace without some instrument showing my relative position?
On 10 Jun 2015, at 12:31, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:With the greatest of respect David, might we not rather learn that basic map reading is the pre-requisite navigational essential and reliance on any instrumentation must come as a second not first line of defence?I say this with only the best of intentions.On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:27 PM, David Molden <davidmoldenchen@gmail.com> wrote:This is all about my instrumentation. I checked the map, and always carry one, so I was aware of the airspace. My error was that having loaded the airspace file on my Flymaster, and set it to trigger if approaching airspace that it would show me a screen I could actually use. It seems Flymaster is pretty crap at airspace. Part of the problem I expect was me messing with the Flymaster in flight trying to get up something that showed where I was in relation to airspace … and in the process ended up in it.I have learned that I need a better gadget for this. Don't use Flymaster for Airspace.
On 10 Jun 2015, at 12:21, Tim Pentreath <tim.pentreath@gmail.com> wrote:Hi David, one thing I'd say is even had you had managed to squeeze past Thruxton (I assume to the east), you'd then have had to deal with Middle Wallop, which is slightly further to the east too... So my message to you is to start avoiding airspace much earlier - ie. be aware of the bigger picture. Once you get pinned up against airspace you're generally doomed, unless you get lucky.When I'm using FlySkyHy, I have it zoomed out a lot, and only zoom in when I get close:<image.png>NB. I wasn't actually avoiding South Cerney which was actually open on Sunday.HTH
TimOn 10 June 2015 at 11:17, David Molden <davidmoldenchen@gmail.com> wrote:Yep, my flight log on g/earth shows I just clipped the edge of Thruxton ATZ. I was the only pilot in the sky at the time, so I had no experienced gaggle to lead the way like there was on Sunday. Will practice making 3D visualisations of airspace maps.On 10 Jun 2015, at 10:51, Chris Williams <chr15williams@btinternet.com> wrote:For a quick overview of the airspace you mention I followed Dave Cox's advice earlier in this thread and downloaded skydemonlight. It's free and shows a very clear version of the basic airspace information you need.<image001.jpg>From: tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nik Valiris
Sent: 09 June 2015 17:02
To: tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [TVHGC Members] XC Soar paragliding airspace file - advice/help?I don't think airspace was an issue as it FL65+ where you flew.
You might want to check your track though as you were close to or inside Thurxton ATZ and just short 1.8km from Middle Wallop ATZ.On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 4:28 PM, David Molden <davidmoldenchen@gmail.com> wrote:Thanks for the tips Martin. I actually thought I kept outside the airspace as the 'Dist to CTR' never reached zero - I used this to try and fly clear, but the poor screen could well be down to settings. Maybe I thermalled up into airspace rather than flying into it?I'll be flying mainly outside the UK for much of the summer now with little or no airspace to worry about so I'll update my instruments when I get back. Possibly a Kobo although interested to see the Vertica 3 when it's available. I think a separate airspace gadget is definitely the way to go.On 9 Jun 2015, at 16:02, Martin Butcher <m1rt2n@hotmail.com> wrote:David Flymasters do display the airspace map (But it isn't brilliant). If it beeped at you, you were heading towards it. You were probably zoomed in so much that the boarder was outside the screen area. Try pressing the up/down arrows to zoom in/out. Or possible that the warning distance was too great.However as Mike has said it is much easier to use a Kobo as it is so much clearer.I have a Live and a Kobo, both give me warnings. I set the Kobo warning distance further away to give advance warning and the flymaster to warn me if I am about to enter.Martin
From: davidmoldenchen@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [TVHGC Members] XC Soar paragliding airspace file - advice/help?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 15:16:46 +0100
To: tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com
Thanks Mike - sounds sensible. I'm already thinking Kobo or Vertiga.On 9 Jun 2015, at 14:42, Mike Humphries <mike.humphries@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:Hi David - I found trying to do everything on one instrument impossible, I use the Flymaster Nav for logging my flight / vario / waypoints / thermal assistant and either a garmin or kobo for airspace, with the right scale the kobo shows me exactly where I am in relation to airspace and gives me plenty of warning without the distraction of alarms and changing pages...cheers...Mike HOn 9 June 2015 at 12:23, David Molden <davidmoldenchen@gmail.com> wrote:Any advice plse?I just started my XC journey and starting to get to grips with airspace. On Monday I flew 25km from Combe to just south of Andover and in the process my Flymaster Nav (with airspace map downloaded from soaring web) beeped telling me I was approaching airspace, and then it switched to the airspace screen which was pretty useless. No map shown, just an arrow. I used the 'Distance to CTR' to tell me if I was flying towards or away from the airspace. Pretty primitive.Any suggestions on use of airspace maps would be totally appreciated.On 9 Jun 2015, at 12:10, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:FWIW I have found errors in just about every file I ever downloaded. Most have been trivial or not relevant to my flights but demonstrates the human error element in such things.All downloadable files are the product of a person sitting down and translating the original text based official output into some form of mappable file. Some of it is done by text parsers (software) and some "by hand". text parsers are potentially prone to error as is the concentration of any individual (usually amatuer) however well intentioned they may be.My own approach is to use a free download (soaring web), check the coordinates of important areas myself against the official file, and then fly with the electronic map as a reference for locating me on the CAA chart I always fly with.I don't see any other way of complying with the statutory duty on a pilot to know where you are in 3D at all times.Sorry if I am repeating something already stated.On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:31 AM, 'Steve U' via TVHGC members list <tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com> wrote:On 08/06/2015 21:26, David wrote:
Steve - I got the link from the SHGC forum, but Steve P didn't list the parameters he selected.
This is the danger of taking any airspace file without knowing the parameters to which it was made.
It will take you less than 5 minutes to generate your own airspace file, from the links I have given you within the caveats given by Lee B and Richard B.
If you don't feel up to this then why would you use a file generated by the same methods but without knowing the parameters used?
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