On Sunday, 17 April 2016, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:
"When the wind is off to the right you might concede a left turn" is what I understood you to say, Simon.I said I might concede a right turn when the wind is off to the left for reasons of similar argument to yours.Where we differ is the height at which you appear to be considering the first 360. You seem to be saying you want to make the first turn away from the hill into wind. I am saying if the hill is still an issue (by that I mean a hill and its ridge traffic restrict your 360) a pilot is unwise (should have IMO been taught not to) be considering a 360 yet. Need to get higher and 360 well above the hill and its traffic. I know that never happens and we see people trying to 360 in the traffic but that is really my point.I see your arguments as further supporting the favouring of "thermalling" over ridge traffic and adapting air lore to suit that purpose.I said, and no-one has denied it, that maintaining a right hand bank and encountering a head on is a dangerous situation to require a pilot to be put into as airlaw requires both pilots to brake right to avoid and both are put at risk of spin.I dont see the "convenience" of the thermallers as a good enough reason to depart from that fairly self evident fact.--On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Simon H <sheadford1@gmail.com> wrote:Well I hope you all had a great day today. I'm away briefly in Montenegro otherwise would have joined in the fun for sure.
Off to the 'right' I said. Anyway, accepting that the normal ridge soaring pattern is closer to the hill on the upwind beat and further out on the downwind, and assuming that you're more likely to successfully enter (ie want to turn in) a thermal flying into wind than downwind, at least that's my experience, then the first turn should be made away from the hill hence to the left. And vice versa for off to the right. Bang on, a meet head could call it either way.
After a couple of turns the proximity of the hill ceases to be relevant of course but no maneuver should be executed if it puts you and another pilot into conflict. That is stupidity, and obvious. Drivers, pilots, boat skippers etc are all bound by the same tenet.
S
On 16 Apr 2016 21:26, "'Donovan' via TVHGC members list" <tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com> wrote:----I concur, how about Turn it in🙄😇RegardsDaniel J DonovanSeventeen emails discussing turn direction... Hilarious 😄
On Saturday, 16 April 2016, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:Only relevant in that it is based on the same principle of braking right when turning left to avoid conflict is preferable to avoid braking further right and spinning. I thought that was clear from the context but I maybe should have made that more explicit. Only relevant in that, like circuits, the default turn is left unless other considerations outweigh that imperative.Southern Club? Is that the one that has the most mid-air collisions?Thermalling at ridge height is not thermalling at all, in my opinion it is "getting in the way".It amounts to the age old "I am thermalling so I need you to adopt your airlaw to suit my need" mindset of the "entitled".all just my opinion of course.The one argument I was expecting to be raised and one that may have some traction, is when the wind is off to the left (Simon has alluded to it and may elaborate?) In that case the downwind run would bring the pilot "dangerously close to the ridge" and so would be better to be doing the downwind futher out. This is variation on the theme put forward by Richard.Coombe is just such a hill where the best conditions are "off to the left a bit"? So it is understandable that the right turn edict would be made here.EXCEPT that those arguments (both Richard's and Simon's) attempt to make 360 turns that bring a pilot close to the ridge less dangerous.WTF are those pilots doing 360s that low for? Oh, yes, sorry they are "thermalling".--On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Richard Chambers <rchambersuk@gmail.com> wrote:Thermalling is nothing like airfield circuits so I don't know how that is relevant? Thermalling right allows you to follow airlaw on the ridge without leaving the thermal. This is why the Southern club (the busiest in the country) has a right turn rule on their sites, it reduces conflict between thermalling and ridge soaring.
I'm happy to turn either way in a thermal, every thermal seems to have its own preferred spin so you have to be flexible, but I still maintain that unless the wind is significantly off the hill, right turn is safer.
Richard
--On Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 11:19 Nik Valiris, <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:The BCC Round on Combe Gibbet is now 'confirmed' tomorrow and the thermalling TURN direction at the hill will be RIGHT (ie. clockwise). ALL pilots should adhere to this where possible whilst abiding by air law and collision avoidance rules. Anyone not doing this may expect a few shouts from pilots as last year.Such as storm over right and left who'd of thought it ;-)Anyhow just so the message doesn't get lost:There will be 6 teams of a minimum of 6 pilots each competing of varying ability from CP upwards, don't expect all pilots to have left the hill early as in other competitions. So 36 - 50 pilots approximately.TVHGC Team: Anyone CP or above who would like to attend the TVHGC Team please contact our captain Mike Manners comps@tvhgc.co.uk
Add your name and details to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gd4_0MWQzAEbD-Q_8UpwPCvu5J6DxcJ3JsBJR33suQI/edit#gid=0 check out the informational page https://www.facebook.com/groups/789294757819050/?fref=ts--On 16 April 2016 at 11:05, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:If I am left I am right.--On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Mike Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:In this instance you're correct (the being amazed bit) :-)
Sent from my iPhoneBut I will be amazed if it is me.--On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:50 AM, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:Mike you need to say "Which Rich":-)On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:Agree totally Rich.
Sent from my iPhoneIf you thermal left and drift back onto the ridge you have to break right out of the thermal to avoid traffic on the ridge. If you are turning right in the thermal you can usually continue to turn right in the thermal, maybe tighten or widen the turn to avoid conflict.
If the wind is off the hill it is probably more important to set turn direction so that you are flying upwind as you turn towards the ridge.
You turn left to make it easier to break right makes no sense.
Richard
--On Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 08:43 francis rich, <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:Thanks Dave. It has to be somebody...................................... And he will if you are repentant.X F--On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:36 AM, dave cox <dilligaf888@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:Francis
Why is is always you? They have called right turns, just accept it like everybody else has. There is no argument.
Lord, give me strength............
Sent from my iPadRich,Much as I hate to get dragged into your argument.... I'm going to anyway. The choice of left or right turns with cooperating gliders is largely arbitrary, however if you are going to make an argument wrt air law then right turns would be the most sensible option. A non-cooperating aircraft coming upon a turning glider would naturally turn right and, since the turning glider is already going right then collision is less likely.But, as I said, it's arbitrary as we're almost static and largely unmanoeuvrable compared to most aircraft.Rgds, Nick S
Sent from my iPhone--It always is if you put it to vote. But in a confliction if turning right already to have to brake emergency right to deconflict = spin. An informed electorate gets the government it deserves? Good job its raining ;-)
On Friday, April 15, 2016, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
--Unfortunately its RIGHT by consensus ;-)
--
On 15 April 2016 at 17:32, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:
Turn direction should always be left. makes no sense to choose otherwise.Boom.--
On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Jon Appleton <jon.apple@gmail.com> wrote:
--A BCC round has been called for this Sunday at Combe. The BCC is a UK based competition for paragliding pilots of all shapes and sizes, focusing on CP pilots who are taking their first XC's.
The hill will of course remain open to TVHGC members on the day, but it is worth noting:
The site will be busy – expect upwards of 60 or more additional pilots on the hill. So if you are planning to fly, do your usual safety checks: checking it is safe to launch and fly.
The comp will pick a turn direction. Find out what this is, and stick to the specified direction even if you are not flying in the comp.
Consider flying from another site. Combe remains open, but why not try Liddington as a alternative site that should be much quieter.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
Email: nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk | nik.valiris@gmail.comMob: 07549 527301
Nik Valiris
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--Email: nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk | nik.valiris@gmail.comMob: 07549 527301
Nik Valiris
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--flyAszent - Advance paragliders in the West CountryTelegram me - @TimPentreathTwitter: twitter.com/flyaszent
--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
flyAszent - Advance paragliders in the West Country
Telegram me - @TimPentreath
Twitter: twitter.com/flyaszent
--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To post to this group, send email to TVHGC_Members@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to TVHGC_Members-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/TVHGC_Members?hl=en-GB
Please note that TVHGC may withdraw any posted messages deemed
unsuitable but does not generally endorse any posted content.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVHGC members list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvhgc_members+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Hiç yorum yok:
Yorum Gönder