Re: [TVHGC Members] Parking again - good news this time for BFR attendees

Fellow aviators might find this useful in situations such as this - private parking 'fines' are pretty much unenforceable in court, so you can just ignore them!

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

On Wednesday, 27 April 2016, Fi <fburgess@gmail.com> wrote:

If you received a parking fine notice after the BFR do read on. If not, no need to bother unless you really have nothing else better to do! Some of us received parking fine notices from Gemini parking threatening £100 if you didn't pay £60 right away, accompanied by pictures of your car entering and leaving (Big Brother strikes again). Well I wrote to them, knowing that I and many others had definitely bought tickets from the machine. This is the rather nice response:

"Please accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience you may have experienced in respect to pay and display machine problem at Rivermead.

Unfortunately following a technical error a number of Parking Charge Notices were issued in error between the dates of 17th - 22nd March 2016. I'm sorry that your experience with Gemini Parking Solutions was less than satisfactory on that occasion.

I can confirm that all Parking Charge Notices relating to these dates have been cancelled.

PCN xxxx has now been cancelled.

We sincerely apologise for all the inconvenience caused and assure of our best intention at all times.

There - I am not always delivering lectures on do this, don't do that etc etc!

Best wishes from your Sites Officer, Fi Burgess

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[TVHGC Members] Parking again - good news this time for BFR attendees

If you received a parking fine notice after the BFR do read on. If not, no need to bother unless you really have nothing else better to do! Some of us received parking fine notices from Gemini parking threatening £100 if you didn't pay £60 right away, accompanied by pictures of your car entering and leaving (Big Brother strikes again). Well I wrote to them, knowing that I and many others had definitely bought tickets from the machine. This is the rather nice response:

"Please accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience you may have experienced in respect to pay and display machine problem at Rivermead.

Unfortunately following a technical error a number of Parking Charge Notices were issued in error between the dates of 17th - 22nd March 2016. I'm sorry that your experience with Gemini Parking Solutions was less than satisfactory on that occasion.

I can confirm that all Parking Charge Notices relating to these dates have been cancelled.

PCN xxxx has now been cancelled.

We sincerely apologise for all the inconvenience caused and assure of our best intention at all times.

There - I am not always delivering lectures on do this, don't do that etc etc!

Best wishes from your Sites Officer, Fi Burgess

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[TVHGC Members] Parking at Uffington White Horse

Please please observe the parking rules for Uffington. They are really incredibly simple. Park in the main National Trust "Pay and Display" car park and buy a ticket to park. Do not park in the disabled car park unless you are disabled and are displaying the appropriate blue badge in your car. Don't park on the side of the road or in the passing places even to unload gliders and don't block gateways that walkers and horses use. And please don't try to land conveniently near your car.

The National Trust owns and regulates our use of this site and the license restricts us to parking only in the official car park and landing only in certain areas. The ranger is often around and it is very obvious when paragliders park elsewhere for their own convenience/laziness.

 

Here endeth the lecture! Many thanks in anticipation that we won't have any more issues here.

 

Fi – TVHGC Sites Officer"

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[TVHGC Members] The rules

We've had a number of members leave this group recently, I think due to there be limited ways to avoid discussions that are not relevant to the individual.

When posting to the group, remember each message is then emailed out to all members of the group, so think before posting, ensuring that your message is relevant and substantive.  If you have a number of points to make, try to summarise them into a single post.

I have copied below the forum guidelines:

1.    When you write an item, it will potentially be seen by hundreds of people either on the forum or delivered to them by email, so be considerate and ensure you are not writing nonsense and/or boring everyone to death. Please keep the forum friendly and interesting and refrain from personal attacks or rants; don't write anything that you wouldn't say face to face.

2.    It is not intended for advertising and commercial use but we will allow occasional posts which may be of interest or benefit to members of the forum.

3.    Obscene, offensive, abusive, provocative and inappropriate posts are prohibited and will be removed and the member will be moderated, ie warned or banned from the forum. Should this happen to you and you believe you have been unfairly banned, please contact a member of the TVHGC committee to request unbanning. Unfortunately the offending post will already have been emailed to many members of the group.

4.    Should you believe that a post by another person is inappropriate please let a member of the committee know as soon as possible.

5.    Please use relevant subject headings so people can choose what they read or find posts relevant to them easily. Start a new topic if you are changing the subject.

5.    Do post links to photos and videos, tell everyone about your exploits and let others know where you are thinking of flying. When the weather is rubbish or you're stuck in an office going stir-crazy for a flight, it is a great way to stay sane and motivated. Finally, enjoy the forum!

 

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[TVHGC Members] BCC Midair Witness Call

Dear fellow pilots,

 

As many of you may know there were a couple of incidents on Combe yesterday during the BCC round. It was really quite busy and there was a midair collision which fortunately both pilots flew away from unscathed. Both pilots contacted me and have submitted incident reports but both also admit they weren't in the best position to see the full picture. With that in mind if anyone saw the collision, especially the few seconds beforehand, or have any video would you contact me on safety@tvhgc.co.uk so we can take any learning points away. In addition there was an incident where a wing was raised into the path of a flying glider. If you saw this or know who was involved please let me know. Ongoing flight safety in our sport relies on open and honest reporting so please help us to help you and get in touch.

 

Many thanks,

Nick Smith

TVHGC Safety Officer

[TVHGC Members] Comms

Folks as you may be aware Jon Appleton is our Comms Officer this year and if you need any support on this forum please contact him on comms@tvhgc.co.uk for his assistance.

I'm just about to leave this Google Groups forum as its now superseded by Facebook and Telegram.  It's been great chatting on here over the years.

Best regards,

Nik.

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Re: [TVHGC Members] BCC at Combe on Sunday

I don't really care cos it works in practice. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Apr 2016, at 13:45, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

All very well in practice Michael, but does it really work in theory?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Michael Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:

I've flown in comps all over the world, in each one there may be perhaps 150 pilots all circling right, representing thousands and thousands of flying hours. I don't think I've ever seen a spin caused by a pilot tightening a right turn to avoid a head on collision. This is just not a real world problem, 

Mike

On 18 Apr 2016, at 11:06, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Arthur you raise a very good point, why, if all are circling in the same direction there should be any head on conflict.

Your assessment relies on the circles being the same diameter and concentric and that the airspeeds of the gliders are identical. None of these parameters is ever likely to be true and even more seldom all three at the same time.

draw a pair of eccentric circles (even slightly eccentric) and trace the relative paths of two gliders turning right. There will be two points of conflict unless the gliders maintain identical airspeeds.

Put another glider into your theorectial thermal and you have 6 points of conflict. 4 gliders 12 points.

I am suggesting that the reason for the right turn edict is to accomodate the expected poor airmanship of pilots leaving the ridge traffic too early and returning too late from their (non) thermal adventure and that maintaining short beats in any lift bubbles that come through until it is absolutely clear that you will 360 well above the ridge and its traffic, if adopted by all who would thermal would render the right turn argument redundand and the left turn argument I have described might seem a more logical choice.

Dont forget, when you are the first into a thermal you choose the "turn rule". If you ensure that the choice is purely arbitrary by staying in the beats until it makes no difference then you will probably a) actually be in a thermal that will take you off the hill b) enable you to choose a left hand turn if you feel it will benefit you and the gaggle trail that will follow you and c) keep you out of the mele of pilots all chasing each other into the bubbles of lift that amount to nothing as they weaqve in and out of ridge traffic shout obsceneties at anyone who is following ridge protocol.

All just my opinion of course. Great to know you are applying critical thought and not merely absorbing the received "wisdom"

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Arthur Gibbs <arthurgibbs@gmail.com> wrote:

Feel like im going against the crowd here but I agree with you in principle Francis. But one might ask why people are thermalling close enough to others that a head on head is still possible while all turning in the same rotation.

From last year I remember all too well it was more common for one pilot to thermal in the other direction from the other 40 pilots(and shout at them all). 

In case any were wondering no it was not Francis.

Glad you all had a good day :)

On 17 April 2016 at 23:12, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

thinking about stuff and chatting about ideas is good too.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

that's the main thing

On 17 April 2016 at 23:06, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

super thanks

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Did you have a nice day flying Francis?

On 17 April 2016 at 23:03, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

lore as opposed to law. the lore that has been advanced as (IMO poor) reasoning for adopting a right turn rule.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Tim Pentreath <tim.pentreath@gmail.com> wrote:

Air "lore"??

On Sunday, 17 April 2016, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

"When the wind is off to the right you might concede a left turn" is what I understood you to say, Simon. 

I said I might concede a right turn when the wind is off to the left for reasons of similar argument to yours.

Where we differ is the height at which you appear to be considering the first 360. You seem to be saying you want to make the first turn away from the hill into wind. I am saying if the hill is still an issue (by that I mean a hill and its ridge traffic restrict your 360) a pilot is unwise (should have IMO been taught not to) be considering a 360 yet. Need to get higher and 360 well above the hill and its traffic. I know that never happens and we see people trying to 360 in the traffic but that is really my point.

I see your arguments as further supporting the favouring of "thermalling" over ridge traffic and adapting air lore to suit that purpose.

I said, and no-one has denied it, that maintaining a right hand bank and encountering a head on is a dangerous situation to require a pilot to be put into as airlaw requires both pilots to brake right to avoid and both are put at risk of spin.

I dont see the "convenience" of the thermallers as a good enough reason to depart from that fairly self evident fact.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Simon H <sheadford1@gmail.com> wrote:

Well I hope you all had a great day today. I'm away briefly in Montenegro otherwise would have joined in the fun for sure.

Off to the 'right' I said. Anyway, accepting that the normal ridge soaring pattern is closer to the hill on the upwind beat and further out on the downwind, and assuming that you're more likely to successfully enter (ie want to turn in) a thermal flying into wind than downwind, at least that's my experience, then the first turn should  be made away from the hill hence to the left. And vice versa for off to the right. Bang on, a meet head could call it either way.

After a couple of turns the proximity of the hill ceases to be relevant of course but no maneuver should be executed if it puts you and another pilot into conflict. That is stupidity, and obvious. Drivers, pilots, boat skippers etc are all bound by the same tenet.

S

On 16 Apr 2016 21:26, "'Donovan' via TVHGC members list" <tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I concur, how about Turn it in🙄😇

Regards

Daniel J Donovan

On 16 Apr 2016, at 19:36, Tim Pentreath <tim.pentreath@gmail.com> wrote:

Seventeen emails discussing turn direction... Hilarious 😄

On Saturday, 16 April 2016, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Only relevant in that it is based on the same principle of braking right when turning left to avoid conflict is preferable to avoid braking further right and spinning. I thought that was clear from the context but I maybe should have made that more explicit. Only relevant in that, like circuits, the default turn is left unless other considerations outweigh that imperative.

Southern Club? Is that the one that has the most mid-air collisions?

Thermalling at ridge height is not thermalling at all, in my opinion it is "getting in the way".

It amounts to the age old "I am thermalling so I need you to adopt your airlaw to suit my need" mindset of the "entitled".

all just my opinion of course.

The one argument I was expecting to be raised and one that may have some traction, is when the wind is off to the left (Simon has alluded to it and may elaborate?) In that case the downwind run would bring the pilot "dangerously close to the ridge" and so would be better to be doing the downwind futher out. This is variation on the theme put forward by Richard.

Coombe is just such a hill where the best conditions are "off to the left a bit"? So it is understandable that the right turn edict would be made here.

EXCEPT that those arguments (both Richard's and Simon's) attempt to make 360 turns that bring a pilot close to the ridge less dangerous.

WTF are those pilots doing 360s that low for? Oh, yes, sorry they are "thermalling".

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Richard Chambers <rchambersuk@gmail.com> wrote:

Thermalling is nothing like airfield circuits so I don't know how that is relevant? Thermalling right allows you to follow airlaw on the ridge without leaving the thermal. This is why the Southern club (the busiest in the country) has a right turn rule on their sites, it reduces conflict between thermalling and ridge soaring.

I'm happy to turn either way in a thermal, every thermal seems to have its own preferred spin so you have to be flexible, but I still maintain that unless the wind is significantly off the hill, right turn is safer.

Richard

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 11:19 Nik Valiris, <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Such as storm over right and left who'd of thought it ;-)

Anyhow just so the message doesn't get lost:

The BCC Round on Combe Gibbet is now 'confirmed' tomorrow and the thermalling TURN direction at the hill will be RIGHT (ie. clockwise).  ALL pilots should adhere to this where possible whilst abiding by air law and collision avoidance rules.  Anyone not doing this may expect a few shouts from pilots as last year.

There will be 6 teams of a minimum of 6 pilots each competing of varying ability from CP upwards, don't expect all pilots to have left the hill early as in other competitions.  So 36 - 50 pilots approximately.

TVHGC Team:  Anyone CP or above who would like to attend the TVHGC Team please contact our captain Mike Manners comps@tvhgc.co.uk
Add your name and details to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gd4_0MWQzAEbD-Q_8UpwPCvu5J6DxcJ3JsBJR33suQI/edit#gid=0 check out the informational page https://www.facebook.com/groups/789294757819050/?fref=ts

On 16 April 2016 at 11:05, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

If I am left I am right.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Mike Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:

In this instance you're correct (the being amazed bit) :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Apr 2016, at 10:50, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

But I will be amazed if it is me.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:50 AM, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Mike you need to say "Which Rich"

 :-)

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:

Agree totally Rich. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Apr 2016, at 10:31, Richard Chambers <rchambersuk@gmail.com> wrote:

If you thermal left and drift back onto the ridge you have to break right out of the thermal to avoid traffic on the ridge. If you are turning right in the thermal you can usually continue to turn right in the thermal, maybe tighten or widen the turn to avoid conflict.

If the wind is off the hill it is probably more important to set turn direction so that you are flying upwind as you turn towards the ridge.

You turn left to make it easier to break right makes no sense.

Richard

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 08:43 francis rich, <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Thanks Dave. It has to be somebody. 

..................................... And he will if you are repentant.

X F

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:36 AM, dave cox <dilligaf888@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Francis

Why is is always you? They have called right turns, just accept it like everybody else has. There is no argument.

Lord, give me strength............

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Apr 2016, at 07:03, Nick smith <glidingnick@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich,

Much as I hate to get dragged into your argument.... I'm going to anyway. The choice of left or right turns with cooperating gliders is largely arbitrary, however if you are going to make an argument wrt air law then right turns would be the most sensible option. A non-cooperating aircraft coming upon a turning glider would naturally turn right and, since the turning glider is already going right then collision is less likely.

But, as I said, it's arbitrary as we're almost static and largely unmanoeuvrable compared to most aircraft.

Rgds, Nick S

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Apr 2016, at 03:25, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

It always is if you put it to vote. But in a confliction if turning right already to have to brake emergency right to deconflict = spin. An informed electorate gets the government it deserves? Good job its raining ;-)

On Friday, April 15, 2016, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Unfortunately its RIGHT by consensus ;-)

On 15 April 2016 at 17:32, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Turn direction should always be left. makes no sense to choose otherwise.

Boom.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Jon Appleton <jon.apple@gmail.com> wrote:

A BCC round has been called for this Sunday at Combe.  The BCC is a UK based competition for paragliding pilots of all shapes and sizes, focusing on CP pilots who are taking their first XC's.

 

The hill will of course remain open to TVHGC members on the day, but it is worth noting:

 

The site will be busy – expect upwards of 60 or more additional pilots on the hill.  So if you are planning to fly, do your usual safety checks: checking it is safe to launch and fly.

 

The comp will pick a turn direction.  Find out what this is, and stick to the specified direction even if you are not flying in the comp.

 

Consider flying from another site.  Combe remains open, but why not try Liddington as a alternative site that should be much quieter.

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Re: [TVHGC Members] BCC at Combe on Sunday

All very well in practice Michael, but does it really work in theory?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Michael Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:

I've flown in comps all over the world, in each one there may be perhaps 150 pilots all circling right, representing thousands and thousands of flying hours. I don't think I've ever seen a spin caused by a pilot tightening a right turn to avoid a head on collision. This is just not a real world problem, 

Mike

On 18 Apr 2016, at 11:06, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Arthur you raise a very good point, why, if all are circling in the same direction there should be any head on conflict.

Your assessment relies on the circles being the same diameter and concentric and that the airspeeds of the gliders are identical. None of these parameters is ever likely to be true and even more seldom all three at the same time.

draw a pair of eccentric circles (even slightly eccentric) and trace the relative paths of two gliders turning right. There will be two points of conflict unless the gliders maintain identical airspeeds.

Put another glider into your theorectial thermal and you have 6 points of conflict. 4 gliders 12 points.

I am suggesting that the reason for the right turn edict is to accomodate the expected poor airmanship of pilots leaving the ridge traffic too early and returning too late from their (non) thermal adventure and that maintaining short beats in any lift bubbles that come through until it is absolutely clear that you will 360 well above the ridge and its traffic, if adopted by all who would thermal would render the right turn argument redundand and the left turn argument I have described might seem a more logical choice.

Dont forget, when you are the first into a thermal you choose the "turn rule". If you ensure that the choice is purely arbitrary by staying in the beats until it makes no difference then you will probably a) actually be in a thermal that will take you off the hill b) enable you to choose a left hand turn if you feel it will benefit you and the gaggle trail that will follow you and c) keep you out of the mele of pilots all chasing each other into the bubbles of lift that amount to nothing as they weaqve in and out of ridge traffic shout obsceneties at anyone who is following ridge protocol.

All just my opinion of course. Great to know you are applying critical thought and not merely absorbing the received "wisdom"

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Arthur Gibbs <arthurgibbs@gmail.com> wrote:

Feel like im going against the crowd here but I agree with you in principle Francis. But one might ask why people are thermalling close enough to others that a head on head is still possible while all turning in the same rotation.

From last year I remember all too well it was more common for one pilot to thermal in the other direction from the other 40 pilots(and shout at them all). 

In case any were wondering no it was not Francis.

Glad you all had a good day :)

On 17 April 2016 at 23:12, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

thinking about stuff and chatting about ideas is good too.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

that's the main thing

On 17 April 2016 at 23:06, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

super thanks

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Did you have a nice day flying Francis?

On 17 April 2016 at 23:03, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

lore as opposed to law. the lore that has been advanced as (IMO poor) reasoning for adopting a right turn rule.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Tim Pentreath <tim.pentreath@gmail.com> wrote:

Air "lore"??

On Sunday, 17 April 2016, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

"When the wind is off to the right you might concede a left turn" is what I understood you to say, Simon. 

I said I might concede a right turn when the wind is off to the left for reasons of similar argument to yours.

Where we differ is the height at which you appear to be considering the first 360. You seem to be saying you want to make the first turn away from the hill into wind. I am saying if the hill is still an issue (by that I mean a hill and its ridge traffic restrict your 360) a pilot is unwise (should have IMO been taught not to) be considering a 360 yet. Need to get higher and 360 well above the hill and its traffic. I know that never happens and we see people trying to 360 in the traffic but that is really my point.

I see your arguments as further supporting the favouring of "thermalling" over ridge traffic and adapting air lore to suit that purpose.

I said, and no-one has denied it, that maintaining a right hand bank and encountering a head on is a dangerous situation to require a pilot to be put into as airlaw requires both pilots to brake right to avoid and both are put at risk of spin.

I dont see the "convenience" of the thermallers as a good enough reason to depart from that fairly self evident fact.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Simon H <sheadford1@gmail.com> wrote:

Well I hope you all had a great day today. I'm away briefly in Montenegro otherwise would have joined in the fun for sure.

Off to the 'right' I said. Anyway, accepting that the normal ridge soaring pattern is closer to the hill on the upwind beat and further out on the downwind, and assuming that you're more likely to successfully enter (ie want to turn in) a thermal flying into wind than downwind, at least that's my experience, then the first turn should  be made away from the hill hence to the left. And vice versa for off to the right. Bang on, a meet head could call it either way.

After a couple of turns the proximity of the hill ceases to be relevant of course but no maneuver should be executed if it puts you and another pilot into conflict. That is stupidity, and obvious. Drivers, pilots, boat skippers etc are all bound by the same tenet.

S

On 16 Apr 2016 21:26, "'Donovan' via TVHGC members list" <tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I concur, how about Turn it in🙄😇

Regards

Daniel J Donovan

On 16 Apr 2016, at 19:36, Tim Pentreath <tim.pentreath@gmail.com> wrote:

Seventeen emails discussing turn direction... Hilarious 😄

On Saturday, 16 April 2016, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Only relevant in that it is based on the same principle of braking right when turning left to avoid conflict is preferable to avoid braking further right and spinning. I thought that was clear from the context but I maybe should have made that more explicit. Only relevant in that, like circuits, the default turn is left unless other considerations outweigh that imperative.

Southern Club? Is that the one that has the most mid-air collisions?

Thermalling at ridge height is not thermalling at all, in my opinion it is "getting in the way".

It amounts to the age old "I am thermalling so I need you to adopt your airlaw to suit my need" mindset of the "entitled".

all just my opinion of course.

The one argument I was expecting to be raised and one that may have some traction, is when the wind is off to the left (Simon has alluded to it and may elaborate?) In that case the downwind run would bring the pilot "dangerously close to the ridge" and so would be better to be doing the downwind futher out. This is variation on the theme put forward by Richard.

Coombe is just such a hill where the best conditions are "off to the left a bit"? So it is understandable that the right turn edict would be made here.

EXCEPT that those arguments (both Richard's and Simon's) attempt to make 360 turns that bring a pilot close to the ridge less dangerous.

WTF are those pilots doing 360s that low for? Oh, yes, sorry they are "thermalling".

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Richard Chambers <rchambersuk@gmail.com> wrote:

Thermalling is nothing like airfield circuits so I don't know how that is relevant? Thermalling right allows you to follow airlaw on the ridge without leaving the thermal. This is why the Southern club (the busiest in the country) has a right turn rule on their sites, it reduces conflict between thermalling and ridge soaring.

I'm happy to turn either way in a thermal, every thermal seems to have its own preferred spin so you have to be flexible, but I still maintain that unless the wind is significantly off the hill, right turn is safer.

Richard

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 11:19 Nik Valiris, <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Such as storm over right and left who'd of thought it ;-)

Anyhow just so the message doesn't get lost:

The BCC Round on Combe Gibbet is now 'confirmed' tomorrow and the thermalling TURN direction at the hill will be RIGHT (ie. clockwise).  ALL pilots should adhere to this where possible whilst abiding by air law and collision avoidance rules.  Anyone not doing this may expect a few shouts from pilots as last year.

There will be 6 teams of a minimum of 6 pilots each competing of varying ability from CP upwards, don't expect all pilots to have left the hill early as in other competitions.  So 36 - 50 pilots approximately.

TVHGC Team:  Anyone CP or above who would like to attend the TVHGC Team please contact our captain Mike Manners comps@tvhgc.co.uk
Add your name and details to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gd4_0MWQzAEbD-Q_8UpwPCvu5J6DxcJ3JsBJR33suQI/edit#gid=0 check out the informational page https://www.facebook.com/groups/789294757819050/?fref=ts

On 16 April 2016 at 11:05, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

If I am left I am right.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Mike Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:

In this instance you're correct (the being amazed bit) :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Apr 2016, at 10:50, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

But I will be amazed if it is me.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:50 AM, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Mike you need to say "Which Rich"

 :-)

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Coupe <mcoupe71@gmail.com> wrote:

Agree totally Rich. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Apr 2016, at 10:31, Richard Chambers <rchambersuk@gmail.com> wrote:

If you thermal left and drift back onto the ridge you have to break right out of the thermal to avoid traffic on the ridge. If you are turning right in the thermal you can usually continue to turn right in the thermal, maybe tighten or widen the turn to avoid conflict.

If the wind is off the hill it is probably more important to set turn direction so that you are flying upwind as you turn towards the ridge.

You turn left to make it easier to break right makes no sense.

Richard

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016, 08:43 francis rich, <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Thanks Dave. It has to be somebody. 

..................................... And he will if you are repentant.

X F

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:36 AM, dave cox <dilligaf888@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Francis

Why is is always you? They have called right turns, just accept it like everybody else has. There is no argument.

Lord, give me strength............

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Apr 2016, at 07:03, Nick smith <glidingnick@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich,

Much as I hate to get dragged into your argument.... I'm going to anyway. The choice of left or right turns with cooperating gliders is largely arbitrary, however if you are going to make an argument wrt air law then right turns would be the most sensible option. A non-cooperating aircraft coming upon a turning glider would naturally turn right and, since the turning glider is already going right then collision is less likely.

But, as I said, it's arbitrary as we're almost static and largely unmanoeuvrable compared to most aircraft.

Rgds, Nick S

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Apr 2016, at 03:25, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

It always is if you put it to vote. But in a confliction if turning right already to have to brake emergency right to deconflict = spin. An informed electorate gets the government it deserves? Good job its raining ;-)

On Friday, April 15, 2016, Nik Valiris <nik.valiris@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Unfortunately its RIGHT by consensus ;-)

On 15 April 2016 at 17:32, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:

Turn direction should always be left. makes no sense to choose otherwise.

Boom.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Jon Appleton <jon.apple@gmail.com> wrote:

A BCC round has been called for this Sunday at Combe.  The BCC is a UK based competition for paragliding pilots of all shapes and sizes, focusing on CP pilots who are taking their first XC's.

 

The hill will of course remain open to TVHGC members on the day, but it is worth noting:

 

The site will be busy – expect upwards of 60 or more additional pilots on the hill.  So if you are planning to fly, do your usual safety checks: checking it is safe to launch and fly.

 

The comp will pick a turn direction.  Find out what this is, and stick to the specified direction even if you are not flying in the comp.

 

Consider flying from another site.  Combe remains open, but why not try Liddington as a alternative site that should be much quieter.

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flyAszent - Advance paragliders in the West Country

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flyAszent - Advance paragliders in the West Country

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Twitter: twitter.com/flyaszent

YouTube: youtube.com/user/timpent

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