Re: [TVHGC Members] Re: AGM proposal agenda item 3

It is sent with January's Skywings. It is a green 4 page form that incorporates your voting ballot paper.Agenda item 3 in on the last page. A brief article on page 8 of Skywings explains it in simple terms.. 

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Paul Dowsett <googlemail-personal@netaxiom.net> wrote:

OK, I'll try this one more time...

Where did you see the agenda, so I can take a look at it?

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 10:50:37 PM UTC, francis wrote:

then you must vote against it! :-)

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Paul Dowsett <googlemai...@netaxiom.net> wrote:

Where is the agenda?

How many times in the last 10 years would it have been useful?  I just can't imagine the situations where it would be practical to use it. 

As I said, I've not seen the full proposal. However, it seems like I agree with you - it should not be implemented without a clear framework/process to ensure that it's used fairly.

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 9:50:42 PM UTC, francis wrote:

Paul, I don't think it is unusual for a club or an association to reserve the right to determine who may or may not be a member. Most constitutions would have this option available. What this proposal is missing is any of the usual checks and balances that clubs include with it, such as I have outlined.

What I wish had happened is some debate in good time so that the proposal could have been modified and given wide support. I fear it is too late for that now and we are simply being asked to vote (or more likely abstain) for a poorly worded power to be nodded through.

We either accept it as is and live with the consequences or vote against and defeat it then have the debate in good time for next AGM.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Paul Dowsett <googlemai...@netaxiom.net> wrote:

I've not seen the AGM agenda - would someone post a link?

What would this ruling be used for?  What scenarios have happened in the past that this would solve? Would ceasing communication with, and influence over, the individual actually have the desired effect? A list of explicit examples would be useful, to understand how frequently these situations occur.

It's a pretty serious forfeit. If it's as you describe, Francis, I tend to agree with your concerns.

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 7:53:58 PM UTC, francis wrote:

The proposal is to permit the exclusion of a member upon first or subsequent application (yearly renewal). Every member will be subject to approval by the eleven member executive each year.

Whilst I agree in principle that this is a measure that needs to be available, the current proposal does not contain any balancing elements. There is no appeal to the membership, no invitation to attend any meeting convened to exclude a member, no right to arbitration, no requirement to declare an interest and be excluded from the vote, no requirement for openness. A 6 to 5 vote in favour of exclusion with no safeguards and no right of appeal renders the power liable to abuse and potential victimisation of a member by just 6 of the 5000 or so membership, the remainder remaining ignorant that it has happened. This is not acceptable to me in a national sports association so I will be voting against the proposal.

Without any of these balances in place any exclusion will in any event be likely to be the subject of successful legal challenge, exactly as has been the case without any constitutional means of exclusion. It is ill thought out IMO and needs to go back to the drawing board.

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