Thanks for clearing that up Steve.
-- My understanding was wrong. I hoped it would be.
The BHPA Ltd is one company that deals with the admin of the head office but there is another company called the British hang Gliding and Paragliding Association Ltd whose nature of Business is "Activities of other membership organisations not elsewhere classified" and whose directors are the members of the Executive Council and which change as those members change. That makes a lot more sense.
So I need to restructure my question to include a further entity.
Perhaps this ?:
Marc Asquith explained that it has been established in court that there is a "freedom to associate and a freedom not to associate".
He also referred to a number of entities:
1. The BHPA Ltd (A company limited by guarantee, registered at companies house as having the nature of business Activities of Head Offices)
2. Its Directors (registered as 3 individuals who are estate agents from Nottingham and who are the only shareholders and who are not BHPA members)
3. the British hang Gliding and Paragliding Association Ltd whose nature of Business is "Activities of other membership organisations not elsewhere classified"
4. The Executive Council (11 BHPA members, whom are directors of the company in entity 3)
5. The members (the rest of us).
If I have now understood the structure correctly can Marc explain which of these entities (in the context of this proposed amendment to the Articles of Association) seeks the "freedom not to associate" and which other of these entities they are seeking to have the freedom not to associate with?
Steve, I disagree with your view that the power is "draconian".
On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:46 AM, 'SteveU' via TVHGC members list <tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--Hi Francis,
I think you'll find you're very slightly off the mark with regard to the BHPA.
Maybe you should look here:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02618166
Directors correctly listed:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02618166/officers
Maybe on this basis you may consider a retraction?
With the following, please bear in mind I'm not a lawyer (IANAL - lovely acronym). I'm just using common sense with minimal research.
As I understand it, the reason to choose the Limited Company model has to do with liability. A company limited by guarantee has been chosen as it is the best way to avoid the association being rendered insolvent, with heavy member financial burdens, as the BHGA came close to after a financial hiccup in the 1990s.
The ability to remove a troublesome member is something that is unpleasant but necessary, in my view.
What we can't have, is such draconian powers without any checks or balances. The same small group can't be judge, jury and executioner.
I'm lead to believe that as a member of FAI, the BHPA would be bound by the Court of Arbitration for Sport. http://www.tas-cas.org/en/index.html However, I need to research this, and would look to propose an amendment to the constitution next year.
Also, the group I posted on is UK Paragliding XC news, https://www.facebook.com/groups/311219245657721/, not UK Paramotor XC. I am not on UK Paramotor XC.
On 01/02/2016 19:32, francis rich wrote:
--I have been following Steve's exploration of this matter with Marc Asquith on the facebook page UK Paramotor XC and would like to ask a question, but I have no posting rights there.
Marc Asquith explained that it has been established in court that there is a "freedom to associate and a freedom not to associate".He also referred to a number of entities:
1. The BHPA Ltd (A company limited by guarantee, registered at companies house as having the nature of business Activities of Head Offices)2. Its Directors (registered as 3 individuals who are estate agents from Nottingham and who are the only shareholders and who are not BHPA members)3. The Executive Council (11 BHPA members, none of whom are directors or shareholders)4. The members (the rest of us).
If I have understood the structure correctly can Marc explain which of these entities (in the context of this proposed amendment to the Articles of Association) seeks the "freedom not to associate" and which other of these entities they are seeking to have the freedom not to associate with?
My current understanding of his explanations so far is that it is the Directors who seek the freedom not to associate their Company, BHPA Ltd, with any of the members applying to renew membership, in the same way that they already have the freedom not to associate with new applicants and lapsed applicants under the existing Articles.
If this understanding is correct then it is those three (non-BHPA member) estate agents from Nottingham who would be declining to renew our memberships, based on a recommendation by a majority of the members of the Executive present at their meeting, convened under the Articles, to determine an application. This could be as few as 2 members present, as according to those Articles.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:20 AM, francis rich <francis@jfdiuk.com> wrote:
The issue has been debated in several places. The BHPA Chairman Marc Asquith has given some explanations.Crucially he states that the law allows that people have the right to associate and the right not to associate. He also explains that the BHPA is a company not a democracy and that the directors act for the company under the companies Act.
The directors of the Company BHPA Ltd are two estate agents from Notingham according to companies house. None of teh Executive are listed as directors.
What is not clear is who the Executive council are making the decision whether to associate or not associate with an individual member FOR.
Do they decide not to allow the association of a member with the other members? Or not to associate with the Company (on behalf of the Directors)?
I would happily vote it in if it were the former but definitely not the latter. The former implies that anu=y decision to exclude must only be a recommendation and the membership must have the final word (an appeal to them). The latter implies that the membership must do as the Directors say.
I hope this question can be answered before the vote.
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