I also think that ceasing the reciprocal agreement will have no effect on the issues we are facing but I also think that the "Elephant in the Room" that we all seem to be missing is the overuse of Telegram and to a lesser extent other social media tools as a real time aid to Pilots who are not prepared to invest time into understanding weather suitability and sites.
The use of Telegram has directly lead to chronic overcrowding of sites, this is not a idea I have plucked out of the air but one I have seen time and again. Someone (with the best of intentions) posts that there are people flying or the conditions are perfect and hey presto 30 more people turn up. Great when you have massive sites, but we haven't.
When I started flying you had to analyse the weather using a range of sites and then took your chance. I had many wasted days but when you got it right it was rewarding.
How many times have I seen (even today) messages saying "Do you think it will be flyable?" "Where will it be flyable today?"
I know the Genie is now out of the bottle and there is probably not much we can do about it, but sometimes I wish serial posters would stop and think "What am I actually gaining by broadcasting to the world real time site forecasts." Surely this is the role of a teacher or tutor in a school and when novice pilots turn up on a hill they should then seek out a coach to find out whether it is suitable to fly (and also be briefed on site rules.)
It would be interesting to see what the effect would be if the Telegram groups were suspended for a period of time.
Robert Ager
From: tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvhgc_members@
googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Simon H
Sent: 04 April 2017 22:43
To: tvhgc_members
Subject: RE: [TVHGC Members] TVHGC Reciprocal Agreements
My tuppence worth. I also think moving away from reciprocity is a retrograde step, won't achieve what's needed, and punishes those that don't deserve it. Visiting pilots that are bonifide members of clubs with a reciprocal agreement with TV are almost certainly as responsible and conscientious in their use of sites as any other clubs members. If the problem is overcrowding then action to limit numbers is justified, but my understanding is it's not.
I am a DSC and a TV member but am more widely travelled than that, usually have my glider with me 'just in case' and so rely on reciprocal agreements or the good will and welcoming nature of other clubs when visiting. I'm sure there are others in a similar situation.
The alternative has to be more effective enforcement of site rules. But how? I'm afraid I don't have a solution. Rules by their nature can't be 'enforced' because they're not backed by law which is exactly what someone risks breaking by being too heavy handed with any enforcement. And persistent rule breakers know it, in general.
Cheers,
Simon H
On 4 Apr 2017 21:46, "vincent" <vincent@vcs515372.plus.com> wrote:
I also agree with Francis, a big mistake to stop reciprocal arrangements.
Trump is also giving it a go so we will see just how successful he will be.
At least we have someone to compare the success rate with.
Regards
Vincent Masi
Sent from: YOGA Tablet 2-830F
On 25 Mar 2017 18:41, Martin Shaw <martinshaw@tesco.net> wrote:
>
> I agree with you Francis. Reciprocal agreements are a total irrelevance to non members and bad behaviour.
>
> Martin Shaw
>
>
>
> From: tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of francis rich
> Sent: 19 March 2017 17:28
> To: tvhgc_members@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TVHGC Members] TVHGC Reciprocal Agreements
>
>
>
> A sad day.
>
>
>
> I have some questions....
>
>
>
> Is there any evidence that it is members of reciprocating clubs that are the problem?
>
> Will we find that those causing the problem will continue to turn up and continue to cause the problem?
>
> What, as a member , should I do when I see someone flying a site without a TVHGC sticker?
>
>
>
> I dont want to be negative about this but I cannot see that removing reciprocal rights will have any effect on the problem.
>
> These are the arguments presented two years ago when it came up at AGM. The reason the righ s were not removed then is because the answers to these questions argued for retaining reciprocal rights because reciprocating club members were not the problem, rather it was non members and non BHPA pilots.
>
>
>
> What has changed?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Jon Appleton <jon.apple@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear TVHGC Members
>
>
>
> Over the last years, our sites have been threatened many times by overcrowding and poor behaviour towards land owners and other land users. The committee has worked hard on your behalf trying to improve this situation and make sure the sites remain open and available for you to fly whenever the weather is suitable. The committee was hoping the situation would improve, but within the first few fledgling days of the cross country season we have seen more incidents on sites in full view of land owners and it must not continue. When confronted, most pilots claim ignorance, have not read the site rules and are hardly ever identifiable as a member. In the most recent incident a pilot literally laughed in the face of a coach who was politely trying to educate them.
>
>
>
> There have been multiple votes and a mandate over the years to remove the reciprocal agreements. This was with the hope to improve the situation but no action was ever taken as we are well aware of the freedom this offers our community. However, the committee now feel it is right and proper to consider, you, our members first with regards the use and preservation of our sites.
>
>
>
> It is primarily for this reason that we are suspending the reciprocal agreements this year.
>
>
>
> As of the 1st of April, ALL pilots using our sites will require a current TVHGC helmet sticker or TVHGC email stating proof of membership.
>
>
>
> We will be restricting access to other TVHGC resources such as Facebook and Telegram to encourage full membership. We will also be monitoring the XC league and request the deletion of flights from our sites where the pilot is not a full member.
>
>
>
> Please be assured this decision has not been taken lightly and I realise it may be unpopular with some members, but I ask you in this instance to consider the bigger picture. If we were to lose key sites in TVHGC, it could instantly overload sites of our neighbouring clubs and compound the situation still further. This is not just bad for TVHGC, but for the whole paragliding/hang gliding community.
>
>
>
> It is my sincere hope that with this move, we not only ensure everybody using the sites are members and know and respect the site rules, but that we restore a sense of belonging to Thames Valley with a collective sense of responsibility on TV sites.
>
>
>
> Know your sites, and the site rules. Refresh your memory before you fly or ask another member for a site brief. Feel empowered to help and inform other pilots who you see breaking the rules.
>
>
>
> Lastly, have a great, safe and happy 2017 season.
>
>
>
> Matt Rawlins
>
>
>
> Chair of TVHGC
>
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